“It’s a shame, but that’s how it is,” says the former prime minister, admitting that defeating Meloni is what holds the centre-left together. On Appendino: “She says she’ll veto me; we don’t put forward candidates who have been definitively convicted, like her.” On the primaries: “If the vote is in November, we’ll hold them in May; if it’s in June, we’ll hold them in February. Between Conte and Schlein, I’d vote for her in a heartbeat.”