Lib Dem Marattin: “If the two main blocs abandon Vannacci on one side and the M5S-AVS on the other, we will engage in dialogue with everyone”

The human tide swimming from Morocco to Ceuta, the clashes, the deaths, the controversy over European immigration rules, Italy’s suspension of the Schengen Agreement with Spain, the propaganda employed by the right, the silence adopted by the left: the dramatic images of thousands of migrants also speak to a difficulty, shared by both sides of the political spectrum, in addressing a divisive issue. Those outside the two camps, such as Luigi Marattin, leader of the Lib Dems and a key figure – alongside Carlo Calenda’s ‘Azione’ and Pina Picierno’s ‘Spazio Pubblico’ – in the move towards a new reformist and liberal centre, say that “in this case, rather than an immigration problem, we are faced with blackmail by certain countries”. Blackmail? “When, from one day to the next, tens of thousands of people throw themselves into the sea to reach the Spanish exclave on Moroccan soil, it is something that could never have happened without Morocco’s endorsement. And unfortunately, these are signs of Europe’s weakness – we saw this in the East too, with Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s Turkey. And the blackmail being levelled at the EU is, to put it bluntly: either you give me the money or I’ll send thousands of people to your shores. The thing is, Europe cannot afford to give in to such provocation; this applies to Turkey just as much as it does to Morocco. Europe must not back down at its borders: borders must be defended at all times and under all circumstances; this is non-negotiable. That covers Ceuta; as for the rest of the immigration issue, there is much more to be said.” Let’s be clear about this.

“The new European regulation on migrants is a step in the right direction. The much-discussed centres in Albania were a sort of Italian ‘leap forward’, but I agree with the idea of creating extraterritorial European centres where migrants can be screened according to their claims – whether for political asylum or otherwise – but we believe that they should also receive training in these centres: they must study Italian and civic education, and learn a trade. You can’t just say: ‘Come, come, and then let things take their course’.” This management model, says Marattin, “has worked for years in the United States: people were gathered in certain places, screened according to the type of asylum claim, and trained. Upfront training is important: our businesses need a workforce, and immigration that flows through regular channels would be welcome’. Neither the right nor the left are talking about this, however: there are those who make grandiose claims and those who, even in the face of the human tide at Ceuta, take refuge in more reassuring arguments. “The right is afraid of competition from Vannacci and is trying to ramp up the rhetoric; the left has traditionally had a sore spot on this: a large part of the broad left-wing camp is not in favour of curbing immigration, but rather of the ‘come, we’re all brothers’ approach.” What do you, who are in the middle, have to say? “We base our arguments on substance, not being afraid of upsetting anyone.” Today you have chosen to remain steadfastly in the centre and say: on either side there are two forms of “populism” of different stripes but of equal degrees of demagoguery. But if the two poles were to leave their extreme wings to their own devices, would you be ready to engage in dialogue? And with whom? “I speak for the Lib Dems, given that we still need to clarify the terms of joint governance with Calenda and Picierno. And for the Lib Dems, I say: absolutely yes. If the two poles were to abandon Vannacci on one side and the M5S and AVS on the other, we would happily talk to everyone.”

In both camps? “Yes, because populist movements are fuelled by those forces and, until recently, also by the Lega, which is now in serious trouble. The centre-left has become something quite different from what it was ten, fifteen or thirty years ago – so much so that if you were to take the 1996 Ulivo manifesto today, it would seem like blasphemy to a broad coalition influenced by the extremes, due to the political takeover by the M5S and the radical left. The same applies to the right: Vannacci is incompatible with liberal values’. But if the two blocs were to leave the populist movements to their own devices, says Marattin, ‘we could engage in dialogue with one or both of them. But I repeat: I speak for the Liberal Democrats’. If, on the other hand, the blocs were to hold on tightly to their extreme wings, what course would you take? “We’ll decide that in the autumn, if we manage to meet with Picierno and Calenda, not least because, as things stand, the exact contours of the framework within which we’ll be operating – starting with the electoral law – are still unknown. We in the PDL aren’t interested in the issue of leadership; we don’t want to put our egos before the project. We want to do things properly.”