“Women are better off without skirts.” Vannacci speaks out

Vannacci prefers them ‘without’. He speaks to Il Foglio, the ‘patriarchal’ newspaper. Is it better to marry a woman wearing a long or short skirt? ‘Better without a skirt’. Will he meet Trump’s deputy, Vance, in America? ‘Why not?’ Are you an anti-Semite? “I’ve worked with Israelis in the past; I have no reason to be anti-Semitic.” Do the M5S and the League share your views on Ukraine and Russia? Will you find common ground? “Fn is open to dialogue with anyone who stays within the red lines we’ve drawn.” Do you have contacts with the M5S? “I’ve had contacts. In Strasbourg, I had a discussion with Tridico alongside some journalists.” Vannacci, whose puppet is he? “A Trojan horse, a racist, a misogynist, a homophobe… they’re giving me publicity.” Do you realise what might happen?

If Meloni were to shut the door on Futuro Nazionale, could we rule out a government comprising the M5S, AVS, Lega and FN? Listen to what Vannacci says when I ask him whether he is still in touch with Salvini and whether an agreement could be reached with Conte (who “can’t tell a tank from a lawnmower” and who “has never done military service”; this is Vannacci’s real criticism). Is he still in touch with Salvini? “No, not since I left the Lega, apart from the birthday message I sent him, to which I received no reply. I’ve got no issues with anyone, and it was I who extended the hand of friendship for the last time, in Cernobbio.” Will you find yourselves working with the Lega and the M5S one day? “Agreements are made on specific, time-bound points of a programme, not on intentions and pats on the back. ‘No more weapons’ and resources for Ukraine is one of the points in our programme, linked to diplomatic support for resolving the crisis. Peace cannot be pro-Russian. There are no better conditions for peace than right now, at this very moment! Let’s not waste any more time and let’s not give any more ground to the Russians.” Do you realise you sound just like Conte? “I don’t know if Conte is copying me. If he is, I’m pleased.” I remind him that Conte is the Prime Minister capable of signing the security decrees with Salvini and that he’d have no problem taking or giving lessons, or offering his expertise and experimenting with yellow-green-black coalitions. Vannacci then distances himself from Conte on the economy and the public finances – which in Italy is a matter of nuance: “As far as the government is concerned, given the results he has achieved – which can be summed up as 160 billion in debt – I’d rather take lessons from someone else.” He offers some to those who say that Vannacci doesn’t work, that he has left no mark or made no legislation in Europe. He also offers some to the AI that documents his inactivity: “I prefer natural intelligence to artificial intelligence. My inactivity in Brussels is a myth. I am not the rapporteur for a legislative dossier because dossiers are allocated on the basis of the representativeness of the political groups, and given the political cordon sanitaire, my group is not assigned any dossiers.” He says he dreams of this nine-column headline: “I’d like a full-page headline. ‘Vannacci shelves the Green Deal’”. He is seeking contacts with the US administration and hopes to meet Trump’s deputy, Vance: “Why not? America is our biggest trading partner, as well as an ally (on many issues), but I wouldn’t limit myself to that. I’d like to meet other representatives from foreign countries: Brazil, Argentina, North Africa, India, China, Russia, Canada…”. There has always been talk of Vannacci’s links with the right, of the (missed) phone calls with Meloni, but never of any contacts on the left. Vannacci, have you ever been approached by the opposition? By a member of the M5S? “No, or rather, I’ve had contact with MPs, but not official party representatives. On the subject of windfall profits, assets and inheritance, I had a discussion with Tridico alongside the journalists.” When I mention one of the criticisms levelled at him by FdI – that wall of anti-Semitic filth on his social media – he replies, “They call me a Zionist and a servant of Israel; let them make up their minds. Look, there are more comments accusing me of Zionism than anything else; take a good look. Personally, I’ve even worked with Israelis in my professional past, and I have no reason to be anti-Semitic. I’m also in contact with various representatives of the Jewish communities in Italy, but no one will convince me that offending a Jew is any worse than offending a Catholic, a Buddhist or a Muslim. Just as no one will ever convince me that killing a woman is any worse than killing a man.” Do you defend Palestine? “I’ve never defended it.” He sends me a photo of the book he’s reading, Immigration: Myths and Realities by Pouvreau-Monti, and advises Meloni to call an election soon, but adds: “It makes no difference to us. Meloni, who is no fool, must defeat the left. The Left is currently in crisis, divided, disconnected, and fearful of an intruder who might further disrupt the existing chaos. Voting in April–May means forcing the initiative onto them from the right, compelling them to hold primaries. In any case, the FN will keep growing until April, and if the election is in September, even more so.” After separate classes, what are you offering Meloni? “Illegal for a day, illegal for life: anyone who enters Italy illegally will never, for the rest of their life, be able to regularise their status.” Are they after you? “They’ve chased me several times, under a hail of bullets.” Are they copying you? “If you’re not original, you’re worth little and you don’t surprise anyone.” Like the Mediterranean patriarchy or the skirt… “I’m off to pick up my daughter.” And the skirt? “Better without it.”