Rampelli: “Meloni has the upper hand on Kyiv. Salvini is campaigning; in the end, he’ll follow our lead. Calenda? We’re here.”

 

Rome. “Matteo Salvini’s comments on Kyiv were made at a party conference,” says Fabio Rampelli, Deputy Speaker of the Chamber of Deputies and a leading figure in Fratelli d’Italia. “They carry the same weight as the words I might utter at a campaign rally.” Election rhetoric? “They are different forms of expression. Salvini said what he said…” Namely, that aid to Ukraine should be suspended. “And he said it because we are not a one-man party.” But Meloni did not take kindly to it. “Yes, but I would point out that, in shaping the government’s election campaign, we have never had any discordant voices.” Are you saying that the long-serving secretary will not see it through to the end? “I am saying that, in foreign policy, the Prime Minister’s line takes precedence.” 

“Not to mention,” continues Rampelli, “the equally decisive role of the President of the Republic.” Clear enough. But why, then, is Salvini digging his heels in over support for Kyiv if he knows he’ll end up falling in line with you? “There’s a wider discussion to be had. And an electorate that prefers to embrace simplistic judgements.” Salvini’s electorate? “A cross-section of the electorate, including those on the right, yes, who think: ‘That bloke’, Putin, supplies us with gas, so why should we fall out with the person who supplies us with gas? They don’t realise that the price of gas is independent of his supplies, as Eni’s CEO Descalzi has explained”. 

What, then, is the broader picture? “It’s about Europe.” Rampelli is now delivering his own lecture. For us and for Salvini. “The totalitarian regimes in the world,” he says, “are Russia and China. Then there is political Islam. These are regimes that are waging a crusade against the West and liberal democracies, emboldened by our ignorance and our lack of pride. You see, I find myself very much in agreement with Federico Rampini’s views. And I think that the West, now a soft underbelly, under attack from Russian and even Bangladeshi hackers, has generously given everything to everyone.”

Does defending Ukraine mean strengthening ourselves? “Yes. In geopolitics, there are spheres of influence. Following the fall of the Berlin Wall and the reintegration of Eastern Europe, we have once again become a single continent. Our continental sphere of influence today is represented by Central Europe and Eastern Europe, which have returned to their original configuration following the 1945 Yalta Agreement. The aggression against Ukraine is an attempt to return to those imperialist US/USSR balances of power. Will Putin now launch missiles at Rome, Paris or Berlin? No. The military option will be limited to the nearest nations, as was the case with Chechnya and, today, with Ukraine. But he will certainly make use of hybrid warfare and propaganda to destabilise us. In this context, there is no alternative to the consolidation of Europe as we have known it since the fall of the Wall.’ All right. Please excuse us, however, if we return to somewhat more mundane matters, as you call them. But your ally does not seem to share the same sensitivity. “And indeed, we must make voters understand that only if Europe is united and strong can it play a role in the globalised system, but it must be endowed with a soul, which cannot consist solely of state interventionism, the Anglo-Saxon tradition, or Enlightenment or Lutheran ideals – characteristics typical of Northern Europe. The economic, geopolitical and values-based counterbalance can be found precisely in that Catholic, Orthodox and, in any case, conservative Europe that we have just reunited and which we cannot allow Moscow to snatch away from us. The Europe that represents us and that we defend. I realise these are complex issues.” It depends on the context, Mr President.

“It’s easier to talk about gas, and about who should be selling it to us at low prices, without mentioning that the price of gas is set on the Amsterdam exchange. Which has nothing to do with Gazprom. And that, on the contrary, it is only by increasing renewable energy sources – in particular hydroelectric power, which has been blocked by the EU – that the price of gas falls thanks to decoupling. In any case, Salvini is actually always on our side.” How so? “He is because we, too, are committed to peace, just like him. But unconditional surrender does not guarantee peace at all. If Kyiv had been equipped with more serious weaponry, Moscow would have been well on the safe side of not attacking it. And also because I’m sure he meant to say that ordinary funds are off-limits. Which doesn’t conflict with our position on defence, whose resources come from the EU, which sets them aside under the Stability Pact and does not allow them to be transferred to healthcare or education.” Are you saying that’s what Salvini meant? “Yes.” Who knows.

You interpret his words, but then there are the facts. Matteo Salvini has proven links with Putin’s Russia, its television stations and its ambassadors. “An ambassador is a man of diplomatic relations. That is his role by definition. And Matteo knows – unlike Conte, who invested in defence in the past – that now is the time to strengthen our defences, to improve our intelligence system, our cyber networks and our armaments.” So he’ll be following you. One last question, Rampelli. The League’s secretary seems to be the obstacle, at least on paper, to an alliance between the centre-right and Carlo Calenda. Is that the case? “I’ve never understood why a man like Calenda ended up in the PD, believe me.” Yesterday, the governor of Piedmont, Alberto Cirio of Forza Italia, reached out to him. What about you? “We’re here. If a discussion opens up with us, so much the better. For now, it doesn’t seem to be his intention, and we respect that.” But would you like to see Azione in a coalition? “Calenda is a level-headed politician. He won’t side with the Five Star Movement’s troublemakers or the small-group factions of AVS.”