"Elly, we’ve got a problem if Conte’s stance on Kyiv is similar to that of Salvini and Vannacci"

Rome. Elly, we’ve got a problem. “We’ve got a problem if what Giuseppe Conte is saying is on a par with what Matteo Salvini and Roberto Vannacci are saying,” says Democratic Party MEP Giorgio Gori, after hearing Conte bring Nova to a close. Meanwhile, however, Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni has made it clear: never with anyone who is against Ukraine. “And the PD has made this absolutely clear, starting with Secretary Schlein, and has maintained a firm stance within both the Italian and European parliaments: there can be no deviation from our support – including military support – for Ukraine and from the recognition of Vladimir Putin’s responsibility. This is a matter of values, identity and culture.”

“The PD is saying very different things about Ukraine to the M5S,” says Gori. “And just think: the European Socialists are even arguing for the need to step up military support for Kyiv. Not only that. The latest Ipsos poll reveals one thing: support for Ukraine is in the majority amongst our electorate. They would not accept a U-turn.” Go and tell that to our ally Conte. “If you want to form an alliance, either you support Ukraine or nothing.” His fellow Democratic Party senator, Filippo Sensi, put it this way: “They’ll just have to come to terms with it.” And, on the eve of the reformists’ national assembly on Saturday 26th in Prato (title: “Change!”. Topics: business, employment, welfare, Europe, defence, energy), he reiterates it emphatically: “I very much agree with what he calls it.” Conte? “Yes. And with the Five Star Movement, who are calling for a radical shift on Ukraine compared to the right-wing government. They’re right. Over the last year and a half, Meloni & Co. have sent nothing to Ukraine to help defend against Russian bombardments. It’s time to put this right and give the Ukrainians the means to protect their lives and our democracy and freedoms.” So there’s no getting round it: “Support for Ukraine is not, and never will be, up for debate,” says Sensi. We do, however, have a problem. “It’s not just the PD, but the whole coalition,” says Democratic Party MP Lia Quartapelle: “International issues are, at this moment, too important to allow them to be relegated to matters for experts alone. And there must be a common position across the entire coalition.” What is that position? “The strengthening of European sovereignty, from various perspectives: energy, digital, technological and defence. When Conte says ‘we will pursue a foreign policy different from Meloni’s’, he forgets that Meloni’s foreign policy was that of a small, frightened and uncertain Italy. Do we want a different foreign policy? Let us focus on strengthening Europe, including in the face of ongoing attempts to challenge its security. We cannot continue to confuse the order of priorities.” And we cannot “throw open the doors to the wolf that threatens us out there”, says former minister and Democratic Party senator Graziano Delrio: “The PD has always said it would support Ukraine and has always done so. In every sense: morally, economically and, to some extent, militarily. This is not only legitimate but also a duty, and it is an issue that concerns the whole of Europe: how do you position yourself in the face of a war taking place on the continent?’ There are those who are looking for a negotiator. “This does not mean that there should be no diplomatic initiative. But it was Russia that violated the Helsinki Accords, and declaring oneself ready to leave the Ukrainians to their fate is certainly not the way to build a peaceful Europe. I say this as a pacifist, convinced that war is, in any case, the failure of politics, not its continuation.” Democratic Party Senator Simona Malpezzi reiterates, in response to Conte’s remarks, “that the PD’s position on Ukraine has always been clear, both in words and through its votes in the chamber. This position was reiterated by Secretary Schlein in her closing speech at the PD’s national conference, when she spoke unequivocally of continuing support for Kyiv and stepping up efforts towards negotiations to achieve a just peace, drawing a clear distinction between the victim and the aggressor”. The allies do not, however, appear to be on the same page. What is to be done? “A clarification is essential,” says former PD minister and MP Piero Fassino: “Firstly, on the method: if every leader comes to the programme negotiations saying ‘these are my non-negotiable positions’, the programme will not be agreed. And secondly, on the substance. Aid to Kyiv, including military aid, has a dual purpose: to enable the Ukrainians to defend themselves against the bombardments that unleash an enormous volume of fire on Ukrainian cities every day, and to maintain a balance of power between the warring parties – a prerequisite for ensuring that any negotiations do not amount to a humiliating Ukrainian surrender. The PD supports these objectives; do the M5S and AVS share them?’ It would seem not, but who knows. “Finally,” Fassino adds, “to suggest that simply going to Putin is enough to persuade him to negotiate is to foster an illusion. Putin has stated on several occasions that he will only negotiate on condition that the transfer of the Donbas to the Russian Federation is accepted in advance. Are the M5S and AVS prepared to submit to this diktat?” “The programme comes first,” says Schlein. Vaste programme.