The spectre of Grillo is causing a stir within the M5S: “What will he say on Fedez’s show?”. His loyal supporters: “The list? It’s just an idea.”

“An anti-Conte list in the upcoming elections? For now it’s just an idea, but it could be a useful way to reclaim the party symbol, given that the justice system moves very slowly…”, says Marco Bella, a former Five Star Movement MP who is very close to Beppe Grillo. All it took was a photo. The founder of the Five Star Movement is standing in the centre between Federico Lucia – better known as Fedez – and the other presenter, Mr Marra, in the Pulp podcast studio. The episode will be broadcast on 21 September – just under a week from now – but in the meantime, that image has already generated anticipation, fears and attention. The hype—which Grillo will no doubt be pleased with—has certainly worked. Yesterday in the Senate, there was a great deal of chatter about the possibility of a new movement: an anti-Conte list led by the comedian. There was a mix of scepticism and fear, particularly amongst Five Star Movement members and PD MPs. Some senators even claimed to have heard worrying excerpts from the interview with Fedez. Will he announce a list? A certain degree of caution prevails, not least given the large number of signatures (6,000 per constituency) that the amendment to the electoral law – designed to prevent splinter groups – requires those not sitting in Parliament to collect.

What is certain, however, is that the founder wants his symbol and his name back. At any cost. On his WhatsApp status, he has posted an eloquently modified logo of the Movement. The stars have been removed and the final ‘O’ in the word ‘Movimento’ has been replaced by a crossed-out zero: ‘Movimento zero stelle’. Those close to him do not rule out the possibility that something – perhaps even a place on an electoral list – might actually happen. “I’ve seen Beppe quite often recently,” says Bella, “and he’s really determined to get the symbol back. And given that the justice system moves at its own pace… he’s seriously considering it.” The lawsuit brought by Grillo against Conte over the symbol in April was first adjourned to July – and just a few days later the comedian launched a scathing attack on the Movement’s new direction on his blog – and has now been adjourned a second time in recent days. The first hearing is therefore scheduled for January. It is unlikely there will be a verdict before the election.

Bella goes on to say: “Beppe used to say, ‘I want the symbol so I can put it in a museum’, but now perhaps something has changed because he thinks that one way to actually secure the symbol might be to field an alternative electoral list. Perhaps it could help the justice system act more quickly.” A list, then? “For now it’s just an idea, but let’s see what happens… even the Movement started with communication, with a blog. And the Vannacci initiative also began with a book…”, concludes the former Five Star Movement MP.

It is not easy, however, to speak to people close to the founder. Apart from Bella and the comedian’s long-standing collaborator, the singer Nina Monti, few still have a direct line to Grillo. He refers to these remaining ‘Grillini’ – a term lacking in originality for someone like him who has made the most outlandish wit his trademark – as ‘the last, the second-to-last and the third-to-last of the Mohicans’. In this sense, it should be noted, they do not appear to be a tiny handful. The true die-hards form a small group who, like Grillo, are now in their 70s: a small, ageing but battle-hardened bunch. Like Robert De Niro and Joe Pesci in the film The Irishman who, despite the passing of the years, remain ‘good fellas’, always keen to get things done – and undone. They include Elio Lannutti (whom Grillo wanted in Parliament), Angelo Troiani, owner of the Hotel Forum – Grillo’s Roman headquarters overlooking the Forum – and a couple of other old friends. They meet once a week. When Grillo is in Rome, they talk on the Forum’s panoramic terrace, where the founder once held political summits with the Movement’s lieutenants. If Grillo isn’t there, the others ring him up and take stock with the speakerphone on. With the exception of Lannutti, no former Grillo Movement leaders take part in these telephone summits. Not Virginia Raggi, nor even the ‘Dibattisti’ Alessio Villarosa and Barbara Lezzi, who would certainly love nothing more than to see a new party formed. However, although the two groups belong to the same political camp, their paths do not cross.

The activists of Schierarsi, Dibba’s association, are now solely preoccupied with the health of their leader, who has returned from Cuba following his illness a few days ago. This perception – that Di Battista’s party will never actually materialize, but is merely a bogeyman designed to help Conte in the internal debate within the broad coalition with the PD – has at least fleetingly prompted the founder of the Five Star Movement to contemplate standing as a candidate.